Mitch Allen

This transcript has been edited for better readability: Henry Harrison Podcast — Entrepreneurs, Business & Finance Guest: Mitch Allen Henry Harrison Well hello, Mitch. Thanks for coming on the show. It’s good to see you again. Mitch Allen My pleasure. Glad to be here. Henry Harrison We were invited over to a nice event at your wonderful house just this last weekend, and that reminds me of how we met. That was an Entrepreneurs’ Organization event. We met in the Dallas chapter when I was president of the Dallas chapter, and then the Fort Worth chapter started, which you helped launch and later became president of. So it’s very appropriate to have you on a show called Entrepreneurs, Business and Finance. Mitch Allen Absolutely. It’s great to be here. I was thinking about that too — how we met. I’ve been very fortunate to know you now for 17 or 18 years, and I was lucky enough to be in your forum for about 10 years. Henry Harrison I feel the same way. For those who may not know, a forum is a breakout group where we meet once a month. With dinner and everything, it’s usually about six hours. You talk in a confidential setting about the most important things in your life — business, personal, family, all of it. There’s certainly a business orientation, but it overlaps into personal life in a big way. Then once a year we would go on retreat, and over time we went all over the world — Costa Rica, different places in the U.S., and beyond. In my mind, that creates a lifelong bond, to say the least. Having said all that, we want to hear how you decided to start your first business. I know you have started at least a dozen. You were kind enough to remind me that you’ve bought, sold, or closed around 12 different companies. You’ve helped people manage debt, written a book, built a lead generation company, and now you’ve got this fantastic background that includes being on Shark Tank and building Hire Santa into a national organization. So you’ve got some national notoriety for a lot of good reasons. Could you start by telling us how you first got started in business? That’s always the hard part. Mitch Allen It is. And looking back, it’s easy to craft a story that fits the narrative of where you ended up, but I do think that even from a young age I always had what people today would call a hustler’s mindset. I always wanted to be doing something — whether it was buying and selling baseball cards and comic books, or later buying rental houses while I was in graduate school. It wasn’t necessarily about the money, because I don’t think I actually made much money doing any of those things, but I had a lot of fun and learned a lot. Those are the kinds of lessons you only get by actually doing things. Then after graduate school, my best friend — and we were best men in each other’s weddings — wanted to start a business. At the time I had a very good job at Citigroup doing statistical analysis, but I left that job to go start a business with him. That first business led to another, and then another, and another. We really were following our nose. There wasn’t some grand 25-year master plan. But fast forward 25 years, and yes, I’ve now had more than a dozen businesses that I either started, bought, sold, or shut down. And honestly, there’s probably an equal number that failed, because for every good idea I probably had 10 bad ones. Henry Harrison That’s something I find very common among people who are successful and live interesting lives. They try things, and they’re okay with failing because they don’t necessarily see it as failure. They see it more as a learning experience that takes them into the next thing. Mitch Allen Exactly. And one of the things I often tell people is that most entrepreneurs are not reckless risk takers in the way people imagine. They’re not just out there betting the farm every day. What I think entrepreneurs often do well is they see an asymmetric opportunity — where the downside is somewhat limited, but the upside is much larger than what they’d get by simply staying in a traditional job. That was definitely true for me. I was fortunate when I started that I didn’t have kids yet, didn’t have an unbearable mortgage, and didn’t have a lot of debt. When you’re 40 or 50 and you’ve got kids, mortgages, and a lot of obligations, I think it can feel harder to take that leap. So in many ways it was easier for me earlier in life, because the stakes felt different. Henry Harrison That makes a lot of sense. Why don’t you talk a little bit about LeadRival? That’s one I know well, but I think people would be interested to hear about it. Mitch Allen Sure. LeadRival was the first company I would call a real, substantial company that got to any meaningful size. What we did there was lead generation in the consumer legal services space. Our clients were law firms around the country that specialized in one of about 14 different practice areas — things like personal injury, bankruptcy, Social Security disability, DUI, divorce, and other areas where consumers need legal representation. We handled advertising and lead generation for those firms. It didn’t start out as an internet company. In the beginning, around 2001, we were doing traditional media — TV, Yellow Pages, direct mail, things like that. But very quickly we moved into online advertising, and by around 2004, probably 95 to 97 percent of what we did was online. Over time that business grew to roughly $20 million a year in annual sales, and then we exited it in 2019. Henry Harrison You also chaired the Debt Education and Certification Foundation, which is a 501(c)(3), and that’s something that can help a lot of people because debt is such a real issue in this country. Mitch Allen It really is. The bankruptcy laws changed in 2005, and one of the new requirements was that if someone was filing personal bankruptcy — or even considering it — there needed to be some real educational components involved. So we started a nonprofit that focused on financial education. Over the next 15 years, we helped educate more than two million people, primarily online but also by phone. We had counselors available 24/7, 363 days a year. I was chairman and CEO of that organization until a couple of years ago. It was a tremendous experience. It was still a business in many ways, but it was a nonprofit, so the controls and the mission were very different. I learned a great deal through that process and met an incredible number of people around the country who had similar goals and values. Henry Harrison You also do some coaching and consulting. Is that mostly informal, where people ask you for help because of your experience, or is some of it more structured? Mitch Allen A little of both. At some point you wake up and realize you’re not 30 anymore, and you’ve accumulated a huge amount of experience. In 2018, one of my big goals was to clean up all the handshake deals I had across various businesses. You know how it goes — you’ve got different partners, different side ventures, informal agreements, and all kinds of messy arrangements that grew over time. So I spent that year formalizing things, buying and selling some businesses, cleaning up real estate, simplifying structures, and generally getting organized. What came out of that process was a lot of experience that turned out to be helpful to other people — especially entrepreneurs who are maybe 10 or 20 years behind me in their business life, even if they aren’t younger in age. So I’ve gone and spoken to a number of business organizations and EO chapters around the country. And yes, I also do some actual coaching, though only on a limited basis. I’m always happy to talk with people, but in a few cases people have wanted a more formal coaching relationship where they’re paying me to help them think through business and entrepreneurial issues. So yes, I do some of that, but selectively. Henry Harrison Let’s talk about a very interesting business and experience — Hire Santa and Shark Tank. I can see the T-shirt, the coffee cup, and the backdrop, so we’re definitely in the world of Hire Santa right now. How did you get the idea to start it, how did you end up on Shark Tank, and what was that like? Mitch Allen Hire Santa is probably the most fun business I’ve ever had. It’s not the biggest business I’ve ever had, but it’s a great small business. It really started through Debt Education and Certification Foundation, around 2007 or 2008. We had a Christmas party, and my executive assistant asked me to dress up like Santa. Obviously, I don’t naturally look like Santa, but I did it, and I had a ton of fun. Then I did a Santa appearance for my own children and just really fell in love with the joy of Christmas — especially the way kids reflect that love and excitement back to you. The next year I did it again at our debt education group, and then someone asked me to come to their house and do it for their kids. Then someone else asked, and they wanted to pay me. As an entrepreneur, when somebody wants to pay you to do something, you pay attention. So I went all in. Hard as it may be to imagine, I became a pretty good-looking Santa, and since I was already an internet marketer, I started marketing myself online. Pretty quickly I had more business than I could handle personally, so I started farming it out to other Santas. I bought the domain HireSanta.com and a few related domains, and then I just started slowly growing the business. Then in 2018, my Fort Worth forum really encouraged me to see that this was more than just a fun side business — that it had real potential. That same year we got the chance to go on Shark Tank. It took nine months of preparation and jumping through all their hoops, but I eventually appeared on the show, got a deal with Barbara Corcoran, and it was just an incredible experience. Since then, we’ve had two updates — one in 2019 and another in 2023. It really is the gift that keeps on giving, because the reruns keep airing. That creates huge third-party credibility. It also creates awareness, because anytime somebody is trying to improve their holiday experience, there’s often someone in the room who remembers, “Wasn’t there a company on Shark Tank that did this?” Then they Google it, and because we know internet marketing, we make sure we show up. So Shark Tank itself was amazing, but the long-term credibility and exposure have been just as valuable. Henry Harrison You’ve now had multiple appearances, but I assume that first time was nerve-racking. You didn’t know whether you were going to get a deal or not. What was that like? Mitch Allen It was intense, but I prepared heavily. The first audition was in late January, and then we filmed in September. During that whole period, I overprepared. I watched every episode I could, categorized questions, hired a couple of interns to help me organize material, and did multiple mock Shark Tank sessions. I presented to several forums in Fort Worth and used those as practice sessions. Then when I flew out to Los Angeles, I did another mock Shark Tank with some EO Los Angeles members. By the time I stepped onto the carpet, I really wanted to enjoy the experience rather than just survive it. I also had about 20 years of entrepreneurial experience by then, so I wasn’t overwhelmed by having to talk to investors or speak under pressure. I had also studied negotiation pretty seriously, so I had tactics ready depending on how the conversation went. One thing people may not realize is that it is filmed reality. There are no do-overs. There’s no stopping. There’s no second take. We filmed for 47 minutes, and they cut that down to about eight minutes. Henry Harrison That’s wild. Why don’t you tell people two things. First, if they wanted to hire Santa, how would that work? And second, how do you actually run the business? Because I think people hear “seasonal business” and don’t realize how much real operational work is involved. Mitch Allen Sure. If somebody wants to book us, they can just go to HireSanta.com. It’s very simple. You fill out the information, and we reach out and get Santa booked. The big advice there is: the earlier, the better. A lot of people think late November is still early, and then they want Santa in early December. But the truth is, many clients book a year in advance. Some events rebook for the following year the day after the current event ends. So early is always better. As for operations, yes, people think it’s just a seasonal business because most of the delivery happens in November and December, but operationally it’s a year-round business. All year long we’re working on sales, scheduling, payments, invoicing, systems, and technology. This year we completely rebuilt our scheduling and calendaring system from scratch. We had developers in India helping us code it. That process took about 14 months. The goal is to increase our efficiency so we can book more events without having to add a lot more people. We’ve got a great team at Hire Santa — both full-time employees and contractors around the world handling specialized work. So while the public sees the Santa part during the holidays, behind the scenes it’s very much a real operating company. Henry Harrison Are you also looking at other businesses right now? I assume the answer is yes, because it’s always yes with entrepreneurs. Mitch Allen Yes, always. Since my non-compete expired, I’ve started a lean digital agency focused on SEO, paid search, paid media, and some lead generation. So I’m back in a space I know really well. Within Hire Santa, we also continue expanding into adjacent areas based on client demand. For example, Easter Bunny is only maybe three to five percent of what we do annually, but we do handle some of that. And recently we launched Hire Mariachis, because clients kept asking us to provide mariachi bands as well. One of the things Hire Santa does well is that we can operate at the same level as our clients — whether that’s a family that wants Santa to come to their house or a Fortune 500 company, the Dallas Cowboys, the 49ers, or major malls. A lot of entertainers can’t handle RFPs, contracts, net-30 or net-60 payment terms, and all the operational hoops those larger organizations require. We can. That’s one of our advantages. We can communicate and operate at a level that solo entertainers or very small groups often can’t. Henry Harrison Maybe to wrap up, why don’t you share two things. One, an obstacle you had to overcome. And two, some advice you find yourself giving to younger or less experienced entrepreneurs. You already said something I really liked — that entrepreneurship isn’t about reckless risk-taking. There’s risk in a job too. A company can let you go, transfer you, or put you under a boss you don’t want. So there’s risk either way. But what other advice do you find yourself giving? Mitch Allen A couple of things come to mind. First, on obstacles: you are absolutely right about failure. I remember being about four or five years into our main business and realizing we were 37 days away from shutting it down. We were going to run out of cash. So yes, when you get into tough situations, you either figure it out or you shut it down. That’s one reason I always tell people: it will be harder and it will take longer than you think. That has always been my experience. Whatever you think it’s going to take, it’s probably going to take longer and be harder. As for advice, one thing I’ve been talking about a lot lately is pricing with confidence. We’ve had several years now of inflation — five, six, sometimes more percent a year compounded over time. Many entrepreneurs are still afraid to raise prices because they think their customers will leave. I saw this same fear in LeadRival. The sales team would say, “We can’t raise prices — our customers will leave.” But usually that fear is exaggerated. If you haven’t raised your prices by 15 to 20 percent over the last few years, you probably should. Higher pricing improves your margins, your business quality, and even your valuation. So that’s probably one of the biggest practical things I’d say right now: price with confidence. Henry Harrison That’s great advice. And I also like what you said earlier — that it’s going to be harder and take longer than you think. There’s a joke that whatever timeline you come up with, you should double it. Not add 50 percent — double it. That’s probably a good place to wrap up. People are fortunate if they take the time to listen to you. Thanks for coming on, and I’ll talk to you soon. Mitch Allen My pleasure. Thanks, Henry.