Edward DuCoin

This transcript has been lightly edited for readability — filler words have been removed and sentences smoothed — while preserving the original meaning and conversational tone of the episode.

Henry Harrison: Welcome to the Henry Harrison Podcast: Entrepreneurs, Business and Finance. We are fortunate today to have Edward DuCoin on the show with us. Did I pronounce the name correctly?

Edward DuCoin: You did. Absolutely.

Henry Harrison: I normally go over that ahead of time. It's an unusual name, but I got it right, so I got lucky. Thanks for coming on. Hello, Edward.

Edward DuCoin: Hello. Thank you, Henry. I appreciate it.

Henry Harrison: A lot of times we'll start with what a guest is doing today. But in your case, what you're doing today has been built on all the things you've done through your career — the challenges you've faced, the successes you've had — starting at a very young age.

In 1984, you started a company that grew to have 1,000 employees — I'm just looking at your LinkedIn — $20 million in revenue, and went public on NASDAQ. That's really something. You've been on the board of directors of a NASDAQ company. You've started multiple other companies. You've been associated with universities, including now as an adjunct professor.

Edward DuCoin: Adjunct means we work hard, but we don't get any of the benefits.

Henry Harrison: Okay — Montclair State University. That's all neat stuff. We were just talking before the call, and you said you used to be the youngest guy in the room, and now you're not. Nor am I. But that's all experience that you've built upon and have to offer. I've also heard you don't want to stop, because you like what you're doing. It's not necessarily work — it's play, and adding value. Maybe in this case, let's just start when you were a kid. Did you think you'd be an entrepreneur?

Edward DuCoin: I think there's a couple of answers to that. I believe the highest level of entrepreneur is almost inherent — the way some people are good at playing piano at five or ten years old, or are natural-born salespeople. I've always had that instinct. I was selling painted rocks as a kid. When my brother delivered newspapers and threw them up on the steps, I couldn't understand why he would only collect money once a week. So I'd follow him and collect, and they'd give me a penny or a nickel.

I actually started a legitimate company in eighth grade. It was called Audubon Ski Tours. There was no money behind it, but I thought it was cool that I got to ski for free.

One of the key things is that my mother and father worked very, very hard. Six kids — I was the youngest. We wanted for nothing, but we were, at best, middle class. It hit me out of the blue, maybe in my 20s or even 30s: we used to have pancakes toward the end of the month, and I thought it was so cool having breakfast for dinner. I realized as I got older that we were having pancakes because my dad got paid on the first of the month, and that's the food we had in the house.

My parents had a goal to go on one cruise, which they did, thank God, before my mom passed away. They had a goal to rent — not buy — a motor home and go across the country. It wasn't about getting rich or getting the Ferrari, which I don't have, by the way. It was about two compounding things. One, having that sense of security, because I saw directly the pain of not having funds — saving for years and years to get new carpet in the home. But I also had that inherent entrepreneurial spirit, and frankly, acumen and fortitude, which I think is a very important thing. So that's how it came about.

Henry Harrison: Well, neat. And so the first big one — well, that wasn't the first one, because you started one in eighth grade — but what about Impact Telemarketing and Compass International, the one that went public?

Edward DuCoin: There's an interesting backstory to that, but getting past it, I'd like people to realize that it was a 16-year overnight success.

I started the company in 1984; my brother joined in 1986. He's seven years older. To this day — literally, today is a Tuesday — my company is paid on a Tuesday. People ask, "Why the heck are you paid on a Tuesday?" It dates back to 1985, '86, when my brother got paid on a Friday. If we couldn't meet our whopping payroll of about $800, at least I knew he could cover it. That's why we're paid on Tuesdays.

Twice, specifically, my brother and I were at a Jersey diner with our accountant, and the accountant said, "You guys don't realize that you're basically out of business, right? Your cash flow — you're not going to meet payroll in four weeks." And it was, "Oh yeah, well, we'll figure it out." That mindset, I think, is truly entrepreneurial — the commitment to make sure it happened.

There's an awful lot of luck that comes in, but I do think you make your own luck. I remember one time specifically, it was the end of the month — "Oh my God, how are we going to meet payroll?" And out of the blue, a FedEx envelope shows up from a major client that said, "We're trying to prepay some expenses to get them on this quarter." My mom passed away when I was 23, in 1988, and my whole team knew that was Angel Edna — that was her name. Angel Edna would come through once or twice a year and save the day.

But that's part of being an entrepreneur. People see Elon Musk today as a trillionaire, which is a whole other conversation. But as I understand it to be true, in the early days of SpaceX, he had a rocket, and if that rocket blew up, he was bankrupt. To me, that's badass, because that's a real entrepreneur.

Henry Harrison: I read his biography. He had several other instances where he was a day away from bankruptcy. He continually put everything he had on the line. He was instrumental in his early mapping software, sold it and made money, then turned and put all that money into his next venture, which ended up merging with Peter Thiel and PayPal. And then all the way up to Tesla — he had $40 million of his own personal funds, which a lot of people might want to hold onto for security. Tesla was about to go under, and he put all of that into Tesla. Another time he had to bring in a partner because he was about to lose Tesla.

Edward DuCoin: Yeah. That's being an entrepreneur. I'm not all that brilliant — I always joke around when it comes to home improvements that I hammer in a screw. But I did come up with one thing one time that I really like: all warriors are soldiers, but not all soldiers are warriors. All entrepreneurs are business people, but not all business people are entrepreneurs. To be an entrepreneur, you need to be a warrior.

Some people like it, some people may not. I like it, because I think it truly defines the warrior attitude. You're charging up that hill. You're in front of your other soldiers. You're going into battle, taking the responsibility, making sure you win. It's like beach the ship and burn the sails — we win or die. That's what being an entrepreneur is about.

Thank God for business people — for the people who run good businesses that employ millions and millions of people. But to me, there's a difference between a business owner who has a great business and an entrepreneur who creates. And to create, you have to have commitment.

Now, I want to clarify that. It was only about a week or two ago that it hit me while I was driving: that could be misconstrued — that a warrior will do things at all costs, step on people, hurt people. No. A warrior can be very kind. I think a warrior who sacrifices their own payroll for the good of their employees is awesome — and I know people personally who would never do that. To be an entrepreneur, you have to be a warrior. But being a warrior is protecting: in battle, your troops; in business, your shareholders, your employees, your clients, and anybody else who is a stakeholder.

Henry Harrison: You know, I've got to do a little joke, because you talked about how you're not handy. I'm also not handy. But you have this website, Attics & More. That is you, right?

Edward DuCoin: Yeah, that's an interesting story. We've been fortunate with my company that was started in 2012, called Orpical — each letter stands for something. The O is optimistic, and the L is loyalty. We've had a lot of loyal clients.

One client, back almost from day one, was in the home improvement space — specifically insulation and solar attic fans — and they were all over the country. But we realized they weren't in the greater Philadelphia and South Jersey area, and we were providing marketing for them. We thought, "Wait a second. Wouldn't it be a better idea to be our own client — test our own assumptions and plans so we take on the risk, and then once it's proven, roll it out?" That was the philosophy and the foundation. It actually became a very valuable company.

We turned it off because of the other philosophy — Bill Gates said this somewhere, and I'm going to paraphrase: only with complete dedication and focus can you accomplish world-class things. I felt like Orpical, and me particularly, wasn't getting the full attention it needed to fully grow. So we ended up shutting that down — selling it, basically, selling the inventory. We still earn income from it, though. That website's still live because we get a certain number of leads per month, and we offer those leads at a very attractive rate to some really good local contractors who count on us for that.

It's funny, because people say, "Wait a second — how does a marketing and digital transformation agency that now does software development own an insulation company? That makes no sense." But it did at the time.

Henry Harrison: For those who want to look you up — your website, we'll have it listed on ours.

Edward DuCoin: The main website truly is Orpical — O-R-P-I-C-A-L dot com. That's the company website. I have my personal website, and one for a book coming out. They definitely need more attention, but again — complete dedication and focus. If I have to sacrifice a personal website for my company, I'll do it. I have done it for years.

Henry Harrison: Sure. And I see you've also got Langus.ai. Is that tied in?

Edward DuCoin: Langus — well, Orpical started as a marketing agency, and then we became a digital transformation agency, because it really represented who we were. We still definitely do that, but it's just the growth of a company. I consider Orpical a 12-year-old startup, because we've reinvented ourselves several times. Today we're an operational consulting firm focused on software development — using AI but not strictly reliant upon it — and we affect the profitability of our clients.

Now, that sounds all fine and good, but the next level of that is an intellectual venture capital firm. We may take 30%, 50%, 20% — whatever makes sense — in equity. We love to work with venture-backed startups, or take equity in a company that has an exit opportunity or a funding mechanism where there's opportunity to expand the technology.

Another cool thing we do: an organization may not really be able to afford the technology, but if we build it, they know their peers — say, within a distribution network or in their industry — could use it. So it's, "Okay, why don't we build it for you? We'll build it at roughly our cost, maybe a little more. You'll pay for that, but you'll save a ton of money and have great software. Then we as a team will create a joint venture to go market that."

Someday Orpical will go away — a meteor could hit us, and hopefully it won't be from a negative exit. But here's the thing: the original mindset was always that the exit had to be selling Orpical. Now the exit is going to be multiple exits — whether a separate joint venture or a separate LLC.

Langus is really our first major one backed by other investors. Langus is the word "signal" spelled backwards. We developed a patent-pending algorithm called the Connection Compatibility Algorithm. Without getting into great detail, it affects the ability of two people, two companies, or a company and individuals to connect for a defined reason that makes sense for them.

The key part — because there's a lot of software out there that does this — is that our software is unique enough to be patent-pending, but the secret sauce is working within the law of reciprocity. When you connect two people, it can't be me selling you. It has to be about how the relationship benefits both. And then there's the constant learning of the algorithm, so that every time we meet with you, because we've learned more about you, our ability to make those connections gets even better. That's an example of a client coming to us, us coming up with an idea, and now it's a joint venture.

Henry Harrison: Wow, cool. And you're planning on doing more of those. Those are win-wins, because the client that comes to you saves capital, which they may not have, and they get your attention — longer-term attention, because you're invested alongside them. You said you have clients from the very beginning, so I'm sure you're very invested in them as well, just not literally with equity. But it's a different type of relationship — you're going into their board meetings, talking to their officers about decisions.

Edward DuCoin: Or even a seat on the board.

Henry Harrison: Yeah. So it's kind of a hybrid venture capital. Venture capital provides a great service — it's not always well-loved by some entrepreneurs. Sometimes they're pretty demanding on the numbers, and they do have to lay people off and make hard decisions.

Edward DuCoin: I think there are two levels to that. The purpose of a company is to attract and retain customers; money is simply the result. There's a whole other thing I teach my students about this — if you have no customers, you have no purpose in business, and that has nothing to do only with actual paying customers. It means internal operations too. You need to count on each other.

But the secondary purpose, once you hit that base level, is to maximize shareholder value. If you treat your people well — respect them, like them, trust them, train them, give them the opportunity to grow — you should do pretty well. However, you want to work with the best of the best, and laying somebody off is part of all business. It's not a bad thing, because — I've been at this for over 30... well, that's scary, I've been at this 40 years — unfortunately, I've had the distinct unpleasure of having to fire people. I don't really have a problem with it, honestly, because 99 times out of 100, I gave every chance and opportunity.

What I think about is not necessarily the person being let go — even though that drains on me more than most people would realize — but the people who are staying. My purpose is to attract and retain customers and provide the greatest value. Money is simply the result that enables us to grow and maximize shareholder value.

Henry Harrison: What I hope — and I think you probably do too — is that it's just not the right seat for them. They need to go find the right place for them. Many times, later, you'll hear people say, "That was the best thing that ever happened to me, because I realized this, I realized that. I found my spot where I really needed to be, for me and my family."

Edward DuCoin: You're absolutely right. I've heard that dozens and dozens of times. It's Jim Collins, Good to Great: get the right people on the bus, and then get them in the right seat. These are not bad people in any way, shape, or form. It's just not the right fit.

But back to venture capital — the one concern I have with some firms is you get these 28-year-old MBAs who never met a payroll in their life, and they're picking apart your company. It's like — dude, what I do on a weekly basis, you would be huddled in a corner crying. You've got to meet an $82,000 payroll, and you've got $48,000 in the bank, and you've got to solve that problem in two business days. That's the entrepreneur I want to work with.

I'm sure most MBA students in their 20s are awesome people, but they're not entrepreneurs. And if anybody in that position says, "Well, I'm a 28-year-old MBA — screw you, Ed," well, they probably should, because I'm making a broad assumption. But I've experienced it over and over again. What you're saying from a P&L perspective, or an EBITDA — let me tell you: I've got happy clients, I'm meeting my payroll, and I'm going to be here long after you.

Henry Harrison: Do you still work with your brother? I think you said you had five brothers — or there are six of you?

Edward DuCoin: I'm the youngest of six, so I've got five siblings. My brother and I took the company public. I was way too young. The problem is that the year 2000 was so weird, because people were getting millions of dollars for a business plan — literally, they would just hand over a document, and VC firms were handing them money. Then a year later, everything crashed.

I kind of believed my own publicity — Entrepreneur of the Year, Philadelphia Business Journal Hall of Fame, all that other stuff. But I'll tell you, I'm still proud. I had a company back then, and whatever wealth I had at that time, I invested in the company — because if I want a VC to invest in my company, then I should invest in my company. And then when that company started to really hit the fan, I should have bankrupted it, but — stubborn is a great thing when it works and an expensive thing when it doesn't.

Henry Harrison: That's part of it — they say people learn more from their failures sometimes than their successes. So, when you're teaching your students, are you actually grading papers? Do you have an assistant that does that, or are you grading papers?

Edward DuCoin: No — and it's crazy. People think this is insane when I talk to friends or colleagues about it: I ask my students what their grade should be.

Most of the students, if I think, "Oh yeah, they deserve an A," they'll say they deserve a B. People are always more conservative. I'm not going to give an A student a B, necessarily. And I don't just ask them their grade — I ask why. What did they learn? How did they participate? How would they rate themselves? If you were me, and you were your own professor, how would you rate yourself?

So yes, we have projects, but I don't use a textbook. And this is maybe embarrassing to say — I hope the dean doesn't hear this — some days I walk into class and say, "What do you guys want to talk about today?"

Henry Harrison: You've got so much on the tip of your tongue, I'm sure you can steer it wherever the interest is in the class, or the pressing issues they're facing.

We actually had something like that. I went part-time at night — I got my MBA at SMU, because I was here in Dallas — and we had something similar with group projects. There were a lot of group projects. If you had six people, everybody would grade everybody, and that's what you ended up with. So there was a lot of accountability to your fellow teammates.

Are you still close with your siblings? Are they around?

Edward DuCoin: Oh my gosh — we're best of friends. They are older. Again, my mom passed away when I was young, so my sisters — they never stepped in as mom, but we're all very close, absolutely. And you can see, if you look behind me, you see Howdy.

Henry Harrison: I saw some pictures, yeah.

Edward DuCoin: We do a lot of work in Dallas. I love Texas. Somebody gave that to me from a meeting.

Henry Harrison: You just told one story, and maybe that's enough, but to give a picture of what your business is actually doing right now — I want to make sure I pronounce it right. It's not Oracle...

Edward DuCoin: Orpical. A lot of people think I co-founded Oracle, and I'm like, "If I did, I wouldn't be flying coach."

Henry Harrison: Orpical. If a client came to you today — who would you want to come to you? Who would you approach, and what would you do for them? Maybe you do lots of different things depending on the client. I know it's a form of management consulting, because you have a background in that, but more than that.

Edward DuCoin: Well, there are three answers. Number one, we've never advertised. One hundred percent of our business from day one has come from referrals or word of mouth.

Number two, part of what I teach in marketing, and bring to our own clients, is that the more you narrow your market, the wider your market becomes. With your listeners — if I said, "Think of an animal," I don't know what that means. But think of a pink elephant with purple polka dots — they can instantly do that. The best marketing narrows into a particular audience, speaks their language, understands the industry, and tailors specific solutions for them. You can have the same product, like a piece of software, that you'd market differently for lawyers than for accountants than for insurance companies.

The problem with our company was always that we didn't do that, because everything we did was so customized. And because it's referrals — when an employee or executive of a client company leaves company A to go to company B, they bring us to company B. That's happened maybe a dozen times, if not more. As long as we're not competing, as long as we're not giving away trade secrets, that's a great way to grow.

To answer your question directly, though: it's a company that wants to automate a process using software. Now, how did a marketing agency get into software development? I'm proud to say we got into it because our marketing clients would come to us and say, "We're really getting screwed over." I cannot tell you how many times — even as recently as last week — it's, "We hired the software development company, it's over budget, it's 90 days late." They kept saying, "We wish you guys would do software development." And I said, "Okay, figure it out."

I'm blessed to have a partner who is insanely intelligent. He went from knowing very, very little back in 2015, '16, to where I would put him up against any programmer on the planet today, especially with the expansion of AI.

With the expansion of AI, what I'm very excited about with our company is our ability to productize services and do what I always wanted to do — take them to a specific market for a specific reason. The best example right now is Langus. We developed the Connection Compatibility Algorithm. It works with chambers of commerce, bringing a solution to members so they can better connect, adding value to the chamber. We're doing that with alumni groups, trade groups, chambers of commerce. And the beautiful thing is, once we're in that organization, the enterprise-level clients say, "Hey, can you do that for us?" That's pretty cool.

Henry Harrison: I probably misstated it — although I think you must do some of it — but management consulting would not be the best way to describe it.

Edward DuCoin: No, you're right. Matter of fact, one of the least creative people on the planet — my bookkeeper-accountant — said to me one day, and I'll never forget this, "You guys just don't realize you're a business consulting firm disguised as a marketing agency."

Henry Harrison: That's what it sounded like to me.

Edward DuCoin: You're right.

Henry Harrison: Okay. Well, one thing — you've got that picture on the wall behind you, and it's something that seems pretty cool to me. I liked F1 with Brad Pitt, racing movies. You've been racing cars yourself for years with teams, and you had a business — not sure if you're still involved — with promotions related to it. Talk a little bit about that, because not everybody goes out and races cars.

Edward DuCoin: Even as a kid — bumper cars. I remember being down the Jersey Shore in bumper cars, and all I wanted to do was go around the circle, and I'd get mad if people hit me. Then the go-karts at 10, 11, 12 years old. But I really wasn't involved in racing until I was about 30 years old, when I went to the Dover NASCAR race.

They're doing this parade lap, going slow as they warm up the tires, singing the national anthem, the fighter jets fly over. And on the back straight, I said to my buddy Pat, "I'm going to do this someday. I'm going to race. In fact, I think I want to professionally race." I did have money at the time, which helped. And the guys behind me said, "You're too old. You'll never race." My buddy said, "Oh my God, you don't know who you just said that to."

A few weeks later, I was enrolled in Buck Baker Racing School — five days, ten sessions, morning and afternoon. On Tuesday morning, Buck Baker himself came to me and said, "Son, if you go home now, we will refund your money, because you're either going to kill yourself or kill somebody else."

That was fun. But the school was just not appropriate for a beginner, and I wasn't really aware of that — it wasn't positioned properly. So I went to the proper school. Two years later, I raced in my first professional race. I came in 14th. People in NASCAR, who know there are typically 38 cars in a race — used to be more — would say, "14th, that's awesome." Nobody asked how many cars were in it. It was 15, and somebody blew their engine. But I legitimately earned prize money. I lost money investing in it.

Then I met some people, and I became president of Bang Racing, and we brought Toyota into NASCAR. There's a dramatic story about the fall of that organization. That's where I'm too entrepreneurial — they'd show up with thousands and thousands of dollars of sheet metal we needed to build our car, and nobody's in the shop. It's like, "Well, I guess I've got to write the check." Unfortunately, that check never got reimbursed.

Then I started my own tiny micro team, and we did race some big tracks. I've gotten out of it because it's very expensive, and the industry is very cutthroat. I was involved in politics before, where in DC you didn't talk business at lunch, or certainly not at happy hour — and I think NASCAR is actually worse when it comes to sponsorships and poaching drivers. So it's something I did. I would enjoy doing it again at my age. I loved it.

Henry Harrison: What kind of car did you race?

Edward DuCoin: Stock car. The reason I was able to be competitive at my age is that most stock car racers were brought up racing short track. I went to a road racing school, which is very different — we turn left and right — and that's all I ever knew. So I did okay. But that wasn't the point. The point was being on the track. When I was in my first race and came in 14th, when I got out of my car, I felt like I won the Daytona 500. It was fun.

Henry Harrison: I can see that. Very exciting. So what's the plan for the foreseeable future, for your life's journey? I don't see you slowing down. You don't seem to want to.

Edward DuCoin: No, I don't want to. Oh my God, the thought of getting up in the morning and going to a cubicle — I just enjoy what I do. I love the people I work with. I love doing great work. That's the thing: if you're not doing great work, it's not good.

I have a book coming out that I'm very excited about. If you would've told me in 2019 or 2020 that the book wouldn't be out by 2026, I would've said, "That means something tragic happened to me." But two factors: the story needed to live in my head more, and I needed to grow Orpical to the point where — like the last two years in a row, we were rated one of the fastest-growing companies in Philadelphia — I could prove that entrepreneurial performance.

And I'll share this, because it's such a research-based book: AI has helped me, because I have something like 35,000 files and documents that are part of that journey and that story. I'd sit down to write and spend two hours trying to find one thing. AI has absolutely helped me make sure the story is accurate.

It's called Indicted Loyalty, Convicted Logic — because I was indicted for being loyal to shareholders, and there was a conviction that was completely illogical.

Bottom line: I had a CPA I hired in good faith. The first one was a glorified bookkeeper who had worked with Jackson Hewitt — and I'm not putting down Jackson Hewitt, but it wasn't a Big Five accounting firm — who said I was due a $20,000 refund. I said, "No, no. I'm not even a bookkeeper or accountant, but I'm telling you, I'm not due a $20,000 refund. I've got shareholders, and I don't want any problems." Boy, did I get problems.

I then hired a second accountant who — and I don't want to say anything disparaging, there are both assumptions and absolute facts here — hijacked my books and started an audit behind my back. It took me eight months to find Jeff Josephson, probably one man who changed my life. Who would think an IRS auditor would be a positive thing? He had the books, because the CPA had power of attorney.

I had a gift from God — I guess a gift from Angel Edna, like I was telling you about earlier — named Sandra Riker, who was a bookkeeper. I said, "Look, I can't pay you. I don't know you. You don't know me." She still works with me today. We did the books and determined that yes, I owed taxes. I owed $26,000.

But here's the part I'm missing. When I first met with Jeff Josephson, I walked into his office and saw all these banker boxes with files that had my name all over them. I thought, "Well, that doesn't look good." So I gave him my story: "I thought I owed about 20 grand. I was told I was going to get a 20 grand refund. I have shareholders, we're raising venture capital, and everything's hitting the fan with the financial crisis. I don't want any problems. I know I probably owe money — what do we need to do to get this resolved?" And I was hoping the number would be manageable — had he said 40,000 or 60,000, not that I could write the check, but at least it would be okay.

I owed $692,000. That's what the IRS wanted from me.

Over about a 12-month period, with great work from great people who basically donated their time — and Jeff Josephson, who was very fair — it was determined that I owed, like I said, less than $30,000. But the ramifications ripped my company and my life apart, and it took a decade to correct. I went from being a very well-known and respected entrepreneur in the greater Philadelphia market — being in Success magazine, all those things — to where I was literally unemployable.

Like you said earlier, people learn more from their mistakes. You started this interview talking about the fact that I took a company from my bedroom to being publicly traded — and I started it with $102. My parents had no money. I still have the receipt on my wall: $102 for a certificate of trade name. That pales in comparison to what I accomplished from the day Jeff Josephson said I owed $700,000 in taxes, to Orpical being rated two years in a row as one of the fastest-growing companies.

People ask, "Well, why didn't you just go get a job?" I was unemployable. Orpical got started because there was no other opportunity. It was beach the ship, burn the sails, fight or die — because there was no other alternative. That's the basis of the book. And the book's going to be pretty substantial — right now it's written, I've got to go through one more rewrite, then get it to an editor. It's about 130,000 words, so it's a nice chunk. That's the big thing: grow Orpical, continue to have fun, get my book out there.

Henry Harrison: What a great positive note — the whole conversation's been positive, but what a great note to finish on.

Edward DuCoin: I think it goes back to: you're either an entrepreneur or you're not. Anybody can start a business, and I think that's wonderful. But creating something completely from your mind, getting somebody to pay for it — and then thank you for providing that product or service — and then replicating that and making a unique product better and better, that's the entrepreneur.

And thank God for the pizza shop owners, because we'd never get pizza otherwise, and for the tens of millions of great business owners out there. But I definitely believe there's a distinction between an entrepreneur and a business owner. If everybody were entrepreneurs versus business owners, 85% of businesses wouldn't fail in the first three years — because you would never allow that to happen.

Henry Harrison: Oh, don't forget the Philly cheesesteak. All the Europeans here for the World Cup were talking about the Philly cheesesteak — meanwhile, they're running out of Philly cheesesteaks in Philly.

Edward DuCoin: Well, they ran out of beer in Boston, which is crazy too.

Henry Harrison: Hey, really great to visit, and we'll be in touch.

Edward DuCoin: I appreciate your time, I really do. I'm sure you have many people wanting to be on this show, and the fact that you selected me is a real honor. I do appreciate that.

Henry Harrison: Same here. Back at ya. All righty.